Most may disagree with me but I can see where the colonists and the British are coming from. From the British point of view, levying a tax to make Americans pay for their own defense seems sensible. The Americans on the other hand never asked for this defense so to them it seems absolutely absurd. I think the British were simply blinded by their own pride. The British saw their empire as vast, powerful and one. They did not care about granting representation in Parliament, they were use to having their way go. When push came to shove on most of the taxes levied by the British, the British would back down. But it was their own sense of pride, the notion that they were being defied by people miles away, that made them keep insisting and keep taxing. The passage that most perfectly defines this is, "Finally, former prime minister William Pitt and his friends demanded that 'the Stamp Act be repealed absolutely, totally, and immediately' as a failed policy. Pitt tried to draw a subtle distinction between taxation and legislation; he argued both that Parliament could not tax the colonies and that British authority over America was 'sovereign and supreme, in every circumstance of government and legislation whatsoever.'" Their pride kept holding them back. It was this same sense of pride that made the British march in columns while the colonists shot from behind rocks and inside houses. A revolution also must have seen implausible. How could anyone defeat the greatest army on earth? This revolution is indicative of what America would be. A place where people could fight for what they believed to be right. Against all odds, America defeated the British, freed slaves, won women's rights and civil rights. It defines the spirit of the country.
A couple of other points that I found to be interesting. I did not realize that only five people were killed in the Boston Massacre, just by the title obviously, you would guess more. Also, I can at least see where Grenville or Rockingham were coming from in their terms. But Townshend almost seemed like he was trying to bully the colonists. Taxing colonists who were already uneasy with the British to pay for the salaries of royal governors, judges and imperial officials seemed as if he was just trying to stir up trouble. The colonists already did not want to pay taxes for the British military, why would they want to pay the salaries of royal governors, judges and imperial officials so they would be paid by the crown and made more loyal to the crown?
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The British did have a lot of pride and their pride caused some of the problems between Britain and America. If Britain was not so proud and was more interested in helping out the colonists, I think the British would have realized that several of the taxes they enforced were unnecessary. Also if it weren't for pride, I don't think Townshend would have been such a bully and would not have intentionally made the colonists angry. I also agree with you that it is interesting that only five people died in the Boston Massacre. Not that that's still not a big deal but the name does make it sound like a lot more people were killed.
I agree with the idea that England and the colonies each had their own perspectives and reasoning for what was going on. The British knew they needed to find a way out of debt and taxing seemed like a good solution. At the same time the colonists were growing together and strengthening their unity to resist what they thought was an unfair tax.
I agree, pride is a big issue between America and Britain. But Britain doesn't just have a lot of pride, America does as well. Two people who are for America and who are an example of having a lot of pride, are William and Benjamin Franklin. Both of them want to be loyal to the king, not parliament or the ministry, but want to show that they stand behind their fellow countrymen, the Americans.
And I agree; this pride IS one major thing that leads to the Revolution. Ben, Will, the king, Townsend and more, none of them want to admit they're wrong. And Ben and Will want to please everyone, which leads them to being safe but not at all times respectable. I think if Ben would have chosen one side or the other sooner, he may have lost his job as "the corresponder" between England and America earlier and would have been able to do more for America earlier.
The taxing on the British side, I agree, was a mix of pride and need for money. Need for money took place initially, when the sugar act was placed on the colonies. Then, especially with Townsend's taxes, pride was the main focus because yes, he DID want to make the colonists angry. That was his main goal by placing those taxes on them.
It seems that the British were trying to over-compensate for something with all of their taxing. Whether it be their disagreement with the fact that an American colony was being formed with complete disregard to the British government or a hidden fear that American would begin to over power them, Britain's taxation was excessive.
You make a good point on the issue of pride - Britain was trying to preserve that superior status and the 'spirit of America' was not helping the fact.
I pretty much agree with everything you just said. I do see it from both sides. I do think both sides were very full of pride, because though Parliment was taxing just about EVERYTHING they did back down the cost with the Sugar Act, they just did it in a round-about-way while also getting tough about smuggling, and the colonists took it badly. The colonists did have a point in not wanting to pay for the army, they didn't want them there and Parliment didn't care, they just wanted the money for them being there. And as a side note the Boston MASSACRE does make it seem so much worse than it was, no one should have died but it wasn't much of a massacre.
I disagree with the implication that Britain's pride had a part in the start of this revolution. For the Governors and the Parliament, their actions were just a part of their job. Part of the responsibilities as a parliament were to govern British subjects. This includes taxation. It was the reaction of American born British subjects, who were used to a very laize-faire system of government especially under George I when royal bureaucrats "relaxed their supervision of internal colonial affairs" (pg.92 henretta) These americans most likely had never experienced the reigns of a monarchy and the strict taxation British dwellers were used to. So when the british empire as a whole started falling into debt, the parliament had to do what it needed to do to pull it out of a recession. i feel that pride might have played a bigger part after the colonist had started to fully succeed and drafting such documents as the articles of confederation, declaration of independence and ect.
it really makes me see the other side of things. instead of being on the side of americans all the time looking at it from a british perspective makes it seem extremely different. townshend just saw the colonies for what they wore and it was in the best interest of Britain as a whole but it seemed to the colonists that they were merely being exploited... which also maybe true. weird. and to make a note about the boston massacre i am sure they called it that so that during the time it would rile up more attention to there cause.
I agree the British were very proud of who they were and in my oppinion I bielieve they felt if they were to make it easier on the Americans they were giving in, and would eventually lose control. I believe their way of keeping control was to levy taxes on the Americans. I don't know if Townshend was trying to bully the colonists neccessarily, but it was his way of proving he was in control. I understand where the Americans are coming from; where they didn't ask for the defense.
It is important to understand both sides of the conflict to have a try understanding of the road to the revolution. The British saw the colonies as a source of revenue for Britain while the colonist saw it drastically different as a land of opportunity, equality, and freedom of religion. It is important that the colonists thought of themselves as British citizens while britains saw the colonists on a lesser level as colonial citizens, creating tension between the two countries
I also had no idea that only 5 people were killed in the Boston Massacre. I would have expected many more fatalities for some reason. However this does not mean that the massacre wasn't an importnant event in our history, because it obviously was.
I totally agree. Both the British and American colonists were just doing what was best for their own self interest. Certainly, Britain was not existing solely for the success of the American colonies. Neither the British or American colonies can be held morally wrong, but in the circumstances misunderstandings multiplied over the distance of an ocean equaled war.
i agree that these taxes stirred up the colonists and only made them more frustrated with the British government. And the fact that there were only five deaths in the Boston massacre is very interesting.
I would say that pride has alot to do with the disputes between england and america because they both held alot of pride britain was proud because they were a world power and had a great army, America is proud becaue they have started to establish their own counrty because before now england didnt have alot to do with america and they had already started their own assemblies so i think pride was a bg road block for each countries. I think also something that had to do with it was the sense of power beacuse england thought they had all the power but they were mistaken beacuse they have given america salutary neglect for so long that they had felt like they were already their own country and then england started stepping again so it was putting boundaries on america again and it made them feel powerless.
The colonies did their own things and had their own views on different issues. when they were being taxed they felt that it wasn't fair for them to be taxed on things that people in england were not being taxed on.
The interesting points were also very interesting to me. i always thought that several more people were killed in the boston massacre than just 5.
I think it had to do a little more than pride, rather then debt, as cory said it was a part of their job and reponsibility. I also think that Britains pride, was in question more after the declaration, when Colonists started to get more serious and more involved. Colonists became more involved thanks to the pamphlet "Common Sense", which changed many peoples views, and encouraged others.
I agree with this post. The British had good reasons for the taxes they placed on the colonists. However, it was difficult for the colonists to understand the British thinking behind the taxes, especially considering the fact that the colonists were not represented in Parliament.
Now I see that England and the colonies both had their equal reasons for doing what they did. If I put myself in the shoes of a colonist or an englishman, I could see why each did what they did.
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